years & years – “memo“.
years & years – “memo“.
alright. it’s come to this.
i am engaged in civilized conversation with one individual who will remain nameless on the comments section of the aforementioned youtube video that i will not be providing the link of. i want to get the opinion of my friends and readers, or whatever you consider yourself to be. the person in question has been dubbed “Mr. Conflict”. here is what transpired*, along with some background:
Do-Gooder #1: …[because] I don’t support violence for sport. I think boxing is stupid but whatever the people want to do it and no one is forcing them to, while with dog fights, the dogs are made just for that. Animals should be happy not suffering. I’m not some disgusting person who gets off of watching two dogs kill each other…
Mr. Conflict: it’s funny, you have never seen a dog fight yet seem to know exactly what is going on. I have never seen one either so I do not judge the owners. I have seen video and in every one the dogs tails are wagging like crazy, they LOVE the combat. I have read the rules and know from my experiences with game fowl that the rules are adhered to 100% so I know the dogs cannot be forced to do anything. If a dog refuses to fight, he loses…plain and simple and he has the opportunity to refuse over and over.
Do-Gooder #2: Steve you are dumb as hell. Do you not know what dog fighting trainers do to “loser” dogs?. There was a dog fight, that this dog wouldn’t take part in, so the guy lost, and he took the dog away and tazered him to death.Thats what happens if the dog “refuses to fight”, he is killed. How could you have watched that and not understood what is going on? The dogs don’t fucking enjoy it, they have been abused since birth so that fighting is all they know. Your points are all seriously retarded.
Mr. Conflict: AHHH so the actual FIGHTING is not what you disagree with then? And you believe the dogs fight out fear of retribution for NOT fighting?? Makes NO sense. And my points are valid. Dogs are property and animals have ZERO rights. prove otherwise. Tell me how a dog fight affects you at all or society as a whole. Tell me how a dog fight infringes on YOUR Rights in any manner whatsoever.
Do-Gooder #2: That’s like saying the holocaust was cool because it didn’t affect me. That doesn’t change the fact that it was evil and disgusting. You’re living in the past, where gladiators fought until their opponent was dead for the publics entertainment. That was just sick and the reason it’s unheard of in today’s society is because as time goes on we get more intelligent and the right and wrong line becomes more clear. Dog fighting is just gladiators without humans. It’s not like boxing, because one dies.
Mr. Conflict: No the holocaust infringed upon the rights of the humans involved, Those humans fought against it , and we as humans stood up against it en masse. The gladiators also involved humans who were forced into the arena…. ALTHOUGH I believe that if an adult human chooses that lifestyle it is no one’s business. If a grown man does not at least own HIMSELF, then what have we become other than a nation of owned slaves?
Me: on the contrary – dogs do whatever they believe they have to to please their owners. i own a 3 year old rescued pit. what i’ve learned is dogs will do anything for their owner’s approval; they wag knowing their owner’s are pleased with their behavior. animals aren’t naturally combative – that’s against evolution. they fight for defense and dominance; a good owner in a dog’s eyes is leader and also protector/fighter. so fighting two well-trained dogs is fighting two obedient, but submissive dogs.
Mr. Conflict: maybe, but that’s really irrelevant. If you own a cow or a pig, you can shoot it in the head and cut it’s throat…then cut it up in handy snack size pieces and that’s perfectly legal. Give a dog a 50-50 chance in the pit and that’s a felony….what about the right’s of the pig and cow? animal rights wacks raid a cock fight they IMMEDIATELY kill every rooster there…..to keep the fighters from letting them get killed…makes no sense to me.
Do-Gooder #3: What are you defending? What is your point? No offense intended, just intrigued about what you’re defending?
Mr. Conflict: I am not really defending anything. I have never ever seen a dog fight and I’d wager neither have 99% of the people posting negatively about it. They are going off of the animal rights spin which we all know is 99% lies and more lies. I believe I have the right to do as I please until I cross the line into YOUR rights. Dog fighting does not do that. It has no impact on society or individuals so is a benign activity, yet it is a felony. That’s ridiculous to me.
Me: that’s not really true – there are still rules for killing animals for food. in tx, there was a case of two horses killed with a chainsaw for food & those people went to jail. putting animals down in most states can only be done legally by a vet. i don’t think it’s about rights. i think it’s about humanity & avoiding cruelty when unnecessary. killing animals for food serves a basic purpose; putting them in 50-50 chance to live situations for sheer pleasure is an unnecessary cruelty.
Me: the societal impact: a big reason (at least here in the south, california & new york) dog fighting is illegal besides animal cruelty reasons is that dog fighting is often tied to the sale of illegal drugs, firearms, & sex trade. also, fighters who get loose are unpredictable due to poor socialization & training and can attack dogs/people without provocation = danger to society. owning a pet means pledging to a different set of responsibilities than owning animals that were destined for my plate.
Me: sorry, me again – as for your holocaust example, i don’t think dogs will be fighting back en masse anytime soon. besides the lack of mental ability, dog fighting is under the radar – an underground illegal activity. this behind-closed-doors quality is the same reason abused women and children can’t fight back en masse. many people don’t know about it. if the nazis succeeded in hiding the camps real purpose, who knows what could have happened? lastly, no hostilities – just engaging conversation.
*incorrect spelling and punctuation in original posts were corrected. (correcting grammar was too big a task.)
let me (and jenga) know what you think!
my mood has been become cloudy, once again.
why? my pet peeve (p.i. = pun intended): dog fighting. of course, my first two pet peeves, repeating myself and uncleanliness and disorganization, will incur my wrath the fastest, but dog fighting and animal abuse most certainly rounds out my top five. i was watching random youtube videos with jenga (she likes to watch puppies play and cats fighting, believe it or not…) when i noticed several videos titled “dog fighting”. i thought they might be anti-animal abuse videos, and clicked on them. luckily i decided to pause it and scroll through the comments before watching – what i inferred was that the video was pro-dog fighting! i was aghast. there were comments that read, “dogs are animals, it doesn’t matter” and “tell me how dog fighting hurts you, really”, “dog fighting gives me such a rush” and “look at how they wag their tails; they love to fight”. i couldn’t believe it. any responsible dog owner (i’m thinking of all my friends who own dogs) can easily answer any of those comments with the right and obvious answers. i’m painfully aware that getting on my soapbox is a slippery slope for me; it’s 4:40 AM, and if i don’t stop myself from laying verbal waste to all these unbearably disgusting and stupid people who think dog fighting is acceptable, it will result in my getting zero sleep. i’ll just have to console myself with e-mailing or calling youtube’s parent company, google, on monday to have a word with them.
i will leave my fellow dog owners (and especially fellow pit bull/staffie/german shepherd/rottie/dobie owners) with some insight on defending your position against dog fighting: as you may already know, dogs are famed for their loyalty, and i’m sure many of you have already seen it in your pets. fighting dogs fight because their owners ask it of them, and they will do anything to please them. this is especially true for pit bulls and the dogs in the staffie family. seemingly impervious to pain and renowned for their unquestioning obedience, they take to any task asked of them eagerly and willingly. this attitude is what uneducated and misinformed dog fighting owners nincompoops misinterpret as “enjoying the fight”. this couldn’t be more wrong, or (wait for it…here comes spock…) more illogical. animals are not naturally combative. animals fight for either defense or dominance, where defense includes protection of home, mate, offspring, territory, food…etc. even if someone wanted to argue that some animals are naturally combative (whereupon i will take you on and you will lose), dogs are not in that group. dogs are pack animals, and therefore must be able to live harmoniously in number. animals that live on their own, such as lions (one dominant male) and panthers usually ignore each other as long as there is no encroachment (threat of hostile takeover of the defense items mentioned above). the statement that dogs are naturally combative is even more illogical when many dog fights are fights to the death. are they saying that dogs are naturally murderous? a dog killing another dog in fight after fight serves no natural purpose; the death of the other dog makes the normal, natural goal of dominance defunct. (god, people are dumb.) humans are the only species that is capable of and can afford to start fights for no damn reason. animals are not irrational, nor illogical – the blessing of instinct (aka logic, which we don’t have enough of). finally, animals follow a hierarchical system. as i’ve shared before, an owner has to be the dominant member of the family in the eyes of their dog to be an effective trainer. your dog will obey you, show submission when you take away toys or food, heel when you walk together…etc. of course, in the eyes of your dog, you as the leader of the family also means it is your responsibility to protect the family. this has been proved through observation of groups of dogs being walked the wrong way (not heeling): the dog in the front of the group is the leader; this dog leads the actions of the rest of the dogs. if the lead dog passes other dogs or people with no reaction, the rest of the group is also silent. if the lead dog barks or attacks, the group follows suit. in all cases, the first dog acts first, and the rest follow. following these canine rules of hierarchy, you as the leader should be in the ring, fighting the other dog’ s owner, alongside them. putting two well-trained (aka submissive family member) dogs into the ring to fight while abstaining from fighting yourself is confusing to the dog. this is also the logic behind heeling in general – when your dog heels, he/she is giving up control of the “group” to you. your dog should follow your behavior during a walk where you are leading, and the dog is not “walking you”. so what have we established? 1. it is illogical that dogs “like to fight”; 2. dogs (especially staffie breeds) will do anything out of loyalty and desire for reward and praise; and 3. fighting dogs goes against their logic of the natural hierarchy.
animal owners and lovers: do what you can to help stop this ridiculous nonsense, even if it’s just to spread the word, turning off a faucet spewing garbage by speaking up when you hear uneducated people running their mouths, or simply flagging and reporting abusive and illegal content.
kiss your dogs (and other pets) goodnight!